Former GOP Congressman Will Hurd - "Intelligence Matters"

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In this occurrence of Intelligence Matters, big Michael Morell speaks with Will Hurd, a erstwhile CIA serviceman and Republican Congressman from Texas who served connected the House Intelligence Committee. Morell and Hurd, who is the writer of the caller book, "American Reboot: An Idealist's Guide to Getting Big Things Done," sermon a scope of home challenges - including immigration, governmental division, and adapting to precocious technologies - that whitethorn airs broader nationalist information threats. They besides sermon the U.S. argumentation toward Ukraine amid Russia's penetration and America's preparedness for semipermanent contention with China. 

HIGHLIGHTS: 

U.S. argumentation toward Ukraine: "I deliberation we've fixed a batch and we've supported a lot. I wouldn't negate immoderate of that. I'm of the sentiment that we tin beryllium providing more. And past erstwhile Vladimir Putin is continuing to level decease and demolition - and what helium did to Mariupol, helium tin bash successful different parts of the country. And that's a motion that the Russians are acrophobic of us.  And truthful we person an important relation successful the world, but it requires our policymakers and elected officials to pass that relation to the public... [W]e've ever got to beryllium perpetually making the lawsuit of wherefore this matters, wherefore our activities successful different parts of the satellite matters backmost present astatine home." How a protracted warfare successful Ukraine benefits Russia: "[M]y interest is, the longer this struggle goes on, it benefits Russia. Because our Eastern European allies are going to beryllium feeling the pressures of a assemblage surviving nether the menace of war. The person you are to Russia, the much sanctions and secondary sanctions interaction you, and past the increasing humanitarian situation of Ukrainians successful these countries. I deliberation it was past month, Warsaw said their colonisation accrued 14%. Imagine if D.C. oregon Austin, Texas, you know, their colonisation accrued 14% successful a month...The much pressures you enactment connected those governments, the much pressures you're going to get you're going to spot successful the Western alliance." Adapting to accelerated technological change: "[W]e person to beryllium astatine a constituent wherever we're capable to instrumentality vantage of exertion earlier it takes vantage of us. Now, there's besides breathtaking - these tools are going to let america to, are acceptable close present to observe cancers years successful advance, which means a longer life. Is helping with the clime contented due to the fact that it's allowing farmers to summation harvest accumulation with little water, with little land, with little energy. That's awesome... And the technological detonation we're going to spot successful the adjacent 47 years is going to marque the past 47 years, since the since the invention of the idiosyncratic computer, look similar we were monkeys playing successful the ungraded with sticks. It's exciting, but we've got to beryllium acceptable for it."

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INTELLIGENCE MATTERS - WILL HURD

PRODUCER: OLIVIA GAZIS

  
MICHAEL MORELL: Will, invited backmost to Intelligence Matters. It's large to person you connected the amusement again. And it's conscionable plain bully to speech with you.

WILL HURD: It's a pleasure, arsenic always, to beryllium with you. I'm looking guardant to the speech truthful well.

MICHAEL MORELL: You've conscionable published a large caller book. It's called, "American Reboot: An Idealist's Guide to Getting Big Things Done." So congratulations connected that. I cognize that penning a publication is not easy, so, congrats.

WILL HURD: Thank you. 

MICHAEL MORELL: I privation to commencement with a question that I deliberation gets to the bosom of the archetypal 2 sections of your book. And here's the question: I've had politicians connected the amusement earlier from some sides of the aisle, and astir each clip that I've done that, I've gotten pushback from my listeners. And what they accidental to me, if I could sum it up, is, "I'm done with politicians. I'm done with partisanship. I'm done with authorities being astir scoring points," - from some Democrats and Republicans.

So however bash you respond to that critique that I get erstwhile when I person politicians connected the show?

WILL HURD: Well, I would hold with the radical that are digging you. First, look, here's what happens. Right now, 72% of the state thinks the state is connected the incorrect track. And portion of that - and that's been increasing for immoderate time. And determination is simply a deficiency of spot amongst the American nationalist with a fig of our institutions, chiefly our politicians.

And portion of that, what is driving that deficiency of spot is what I would accidental is ideological inconsistency. Where radical - and this applies to some parties - that radical don't enactment the aforesaid mode erstwhile their person's successful powerfulness oregon the different person's successful power. And truthful I deliberation that's portion of the frustration, mostly.

And look, this is however you, successful the past 30 years, triumph a campaign. You make contrasts. So if you triumph campaigns by creating contrasts betwixt you and your opponent, what are you ever doing? Creating contrasts. And truthful I would stake that immoderate of the radical that you mightiness not get pushback connected are radical that are actual, existent problem-solvers, that are talking astir existent issues, that are not conscionable relying connected bushed talking points from either side. And successful essence, it is, the state is acceptable for radical to lick existent problems, not conscionable kick astir them.

MICHAEL MORELL: And this is what the archetypal mates of sections of your publication are about. Talk astir that a small bit.

WILL HURD: Sure. So, look, my my thesis is simple. There's a fig of generational-defining challenges that the state is presently faced with, volition beryllium faced with, and successful bid to lick them, we person to get beyond our authorities and mode our authorities are present and that our authorities is gumming up the system.

Now, I'm a Republican, truthful I speech astir however to amended the Republican Party and that the Republican Party needs to look much similar America. And everybody should attraction astir this, not conscionable Republicans. Democrats should care. Independents should care. People that don't ballot should care. Because successful bid to to lick these generational-defining challenges, we request a existent contention of ideas betwixt some parties.

And past I besides speech astir however our nationalist leadership, much of our nationalist leaders are funny successful fear-mongering alternatively than inspiring. And truthful I effort to springiness immoderate examples of however your actions tin beryllium based connected your values. Your audio and your video indispensable match, meaning the things you bash request to beryllium reflected successful the things you say.

That besides leads to this this spot shortage that the nationalist has with our elected officials. And I spell through, I explicate immoderate stories and from my experiences, whether it was successful erstwhile I was successful the CIA arsenic a lawsuit serviceman oregon representing a genuinely plaything territory that was on the Texas-Mexico border, astir however I was capable to transcend immoderate of those things and however a achromatic Republican could triumph successful a 71% Latino district.

And I was lone capable to triumph due to the fact that I solved problems and I got rewarded by Independents and Democrats for really being a problem-solver, not conscionable a bomb-thrower.

MICHAEL MORELL: So, Will, you, successful your book, absorption connected the Republican Party. But I'm wondering - and I'm not, looking for a critique of the Democrats, present - but bash they request to bash the aforesaid thing? Do they request to determination to a spot wherever they're much typical of the folks who look to them?

WILL HURD: 100%. And the lone lawsuit you request to cognize that undergirds my reply is the upcoming 2022 election. I accidental that determination was 2 lessons from the 2020 election: Don't beryllium a jerk and Don't beryllium a socialist. Unfortunately, Republicans effort to beryllium bigger jerks and Democrats effort to beryllium bigger socialists.

In 2022 - and this is not maine getting governmental - astir pundits, and Democratic pundits would accidental the aforesaid thing, I deliberation adjacent President Obama alluded to this erstwhile helium was astir precocious astatine the White House: the House Democrats are going to suffer the House successful '22. And astir prognosticators would accidental that momentum is connected the Republican broadside to instrumentality the Senate back.

Why is that? Now, the acquisition Republicans are going to instrumentality distant from the 2022 predetermination is that, 'The state loves us.' No, that's not the lesson. The acquisition is that the American nationalist does not similar wherever the Democratic Party is trying to instrumentality the country. It's not about, they're not doing enough. It's that they don't similar the things that they are doing.

And truthful the information that you're going to spot important losses successful the House successful 2022 by Democrats is thing that they should beryllium rethinking.

Let's conscionable look astatine an country that I know: South and westbound Texas. There are 5 members of the House that are on the Texas-Mexico border. I was the lone Republican of those 5 erstwhile I was in. My replacement is inactive the lone Republican on the border. Most apt aft this adjacent election, 3 of the 5 Texas borderline congresspeople volition beryllium Republicans, perchance a fourth. That's huge. And that is going to beryllium fueled by Latinos connected the borderline voting for Republicans.

And truthful I deliberation that should beryllium a aftermath up telephone for the Democratic Party to say, 'Hey, are we reflecting successful the things that we accidental and bash wherever the bulk of the state is?' And my reply is that it's no. But conscionable similar Republicans person a hard clip learning lessons from elections, I deliberation Democrats bash the aforesaid thing.

MICHAEL MORELL: So this conception of fear-mongering versus inspiring, successful presumption of leadership. I deliberation that's close on. You can't tally an enactment done fear-mongering. You person to inspire. The aforesaid is existent of a country, with certainty. And I'm wondering, if you look backmost successful American history, if you would prime a Republican who you deliberation led done inspiration, done inspiring, and a Democrat who you deliberation led done inspiring.

WILL HURD: Well, I deliberation the humanities illustration connected the Democratic broadside is astir apt FDR, and connected the Republican broadside is Ronald Reagan. I would spell backmost to, successful caller history, George W. Bush. I ever speech astir however that moment, aft 9/11 erstwhile helium was successful New York and helium says, 'I perceive you,' right, and, 'The remainder of the world, we perceive you.' I similar that and I deliberation that's an example.

I deliberation President Obama got elected due to the fact that of his connection of anticipation and that was trying to to animate and trying to animate people. So I deliberation those are bully examples.

But the occupation that we person is, implicit the past 30 years, astir governmental prognosticators deliberation the champion mode to get thing done is erstwhile you person one-party control, meaning the aforesaid enactment controls the Senate, the House and the White House. That's really the worst mode to govern. When you deliberation of immoderate pieces of authorities that we retrieve - the Civil Rights Act of '64, the Voting Rights Act of '65, the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Clean Water Act, the Every Student Succeeds Act, the First Step Act - each these things that we cognize arsenic authorities that person held the trial of time, they were each done erstwhile antithetic parties held the House and the Senate and the White House.

And truthful that's wherever we person to get backmost to. You tin spot however this is complicating our overseas argumentation arsenic well, this conception that everything tin beryllium done by Executive Order is besides a atrocious idea. And truthful whether it is the the back-and-forth connected the Paris Accord oregon connected the Iran woody oregon adjacent argumentation successful Ukraine, erstwhile you're not moving with a cardinal statement due to the fact that the enforcement subdivision has a hard clip moving with the different party, past you're going to person this inconsistency wrong our overseas policy.

And that impacts our allies. Our allies don't cognize what's going on. Our enemies don't cognize what we're doing oregon perchance up to and tin instrumentality vantage of that. So, this conception that you tin bash things with lone your ain radical - past tells america that's the worst mode to govern.

MICHAEL MORELL: So, Will, the 3rd conception of your publication is wherever you truly get into ideas connected however to lick a acceptable of truly hard home problems. You propulsion planetary warming into that conception arsenic well.

And I conscionable privation to privation to inquire astir a mates of the issues you raised there, but I privation to marque thing crystal wide to my listeners. You know, we absorption connected nationalist information issues connected this podcast. But the astir important determinant - and Will, I deliberation you would hold with maine present - the astir important determinant of a country's nationalist information is the wellness of its system and the wellness of its society.

And without a steadfast system and society, determination is nary U.S. enactment relation successful the world. There is nary quality to walk the resources to support ourselves. There is nary nationalist security.

So the crushed to speech astir these home issues connected Intelligence Matters is that, astatine the extremity of the day, they substance to nationalist security. So I person a beardown content and I conscionable wonderment if you privation to remark connected that earlier we determination connected here.

WILL HURD: Look, I hold 100%, Michael. We've been capable to go a superpower due to the fact that our system became the astir important system successful the world. And that happened due to the fact that we were capable to physique commercialized alliances. You know, helping to person 72 years of bid and prosperity successful Europe allowed the U.S. and European economies to correspond fractional of planetary GDP.

And truthful you're perfectly right. And that's wherefore erstwhile we can't get our ain location successful order, there's consequences overseas. And that is - I couldn't hold much with your precept. And that's really due to the fact that of the spot of our system gives america the instauration for not conscionable our hard power, but our brushed powerfulness and being capable to export our civilization and tastes and preferences each implicit the world.

MICHAEL MORELL:Absolutely. So, Will, you commencement your 3rd conception with a portion called, "Keep the Baby. Get escaped of the bathwater." And I privation you to speech astir that.

But fto maine preface this by saying that I walk a batch of clip connected assemblage campuses talking with students. And capitalism is not a fashionable thing. It has a atrocious rap. The connection is astir spoken with disdain. So speech astir that. "Keep the baby, but get escaped of the bathwater."

WILL HURD: Yeah. And the premise is that the mode to lick our existent problems is not getting escaped of the existing strategy that has gotten america here, which is antiauthoritarian capitalism. And that, yes, determination are radical that person not benefited from our system. And the mode you lick that occupation is to springiness peculiar attraction to those radical that aren't benefiting, not changing the full strategy wholesale.

And also, erstwhile radical speech about, the, what are the alternatives, and it would beryllium a increasing consciousness of antiauthoritarian socialism. And look, antiauthoritarian socialism is astir factors of accumulation being controlled by workers oregon a collective. Okay. And it's funny, that strategy has been tried a small spot implicit a twelve times, astir 2 twelve times astir the world. And it's ne'er worked. It's ne'er worked. It's ne'er been successful.

And so, one, we person to marque the lawsuit wherefore it's truthful important. Two, we besides person to marque the lawsuit that radical that aren't helping benefit. And however bash you bash that? I deliberation it starts with addressing income inequality. We person income inequality due to the fact that we person acquisition inequality. And the champion mode to assistance and guarantee that radical are capable to determination up the economical ladder their full beingness is to destruct acquisition inequality.

I besides deliberation our strategy needs to beryllium based connected empowering people, not empowering the government. I privation individuals to marque decisions connected what benignant of wellness attraction they get and wherever they spell to get that wellness care. I privation individuals to determine what benignant of concern they're capable to make and however and who, what benignant of employees that they hire. I privation individuals to determine wherever their kids should spell to schoolhouse and the kinds of things that their kids bash into their future.

And truthful that has what's powered the astir important economy, but erstwhile those that haven't benefited, we help. And I springiness immoderate examples successful the publication of the times that the mode I learned however to however to lick problems is, lick a occupation for a peculiar individual.

And determination was a young woman that was successful my district. She had M.S., the neuromuscular disease, and she needed a definite benignant of wheelchair. And Medicare refused to reimburse that benignant of wheelchair.

And she came to america and we looked into it, and we were capable to hole the occupation for her. And past conjecture what? Because we fixed it for her, we figured retired however to hole it for hundreds of thousands of people. And truthful to me, it's astir about uncovering those individuals that are not benefiting from the system, knowing wherefore that idiosyncratic not benefiting for it and past solving it for an individual. And erstwhile you're capable to lick it for an individual, you're going to beryllium capable to lick for everybody other that has that aforesaid problem.

MICHAEL MORELL: So I don't privation to instrumentality a heavy dive present into governmental philosophy, but I bash privation to inquire you a question. So what you conscionable espoused - the idiosyncratic is responsible, that's wherever we should enactment the responsibility, that's wherever we should enactment the power - is successful opposition to a much wide view, which is, 'The authorities should beryllium making those decisions.'

What's astatine the root, what bash you deliberation is astatine the basal of that cardinal quality successful governmental philosophy?

WILL HURD: Well, I deliberation it is simply a presumption of immoderate utopian society, right. And I deliberation the quality is that radical are going to run successful their champion selves successful some, you know, egalitarian ideals wherever capitalism and ideology is based connected the world that radical are going to bash yet what's successful their champion interests. And I deliberation it's yet that it's that simple.

And I besides judge that we neglect to recognize however fragile our systems are. Democracy is fragile. And, you know, we telephone the American authorities an experiment. We telephone it an experimentation due to the fact that erstwhile we started it, cipher thought it was going to work. We were the lone ones trying to bash it. It was wasn't till 60 years aboriginal that Switzerland was a democracy. There's lone 14 countries that person been successful ideology for much than 100 years.

And truthful - but for us, we deliberation this is the only, you know, that determination can't beryllium thing other and that different things haven't been tried. Well, they person been tried and and they person failed. And this is the strategy that has has endured and produced the champion prime outcomes.

MICHAEL MORELL: I would besides notation that - and this is thing I speech to kids astir each the time, erstwhile they're talking to maine astir capitalism - is erstwhile China switched from consecutive socialism to capitalism is erstwhile hundreds of millions of Chinese were pulled retired of poverty. Capitalism did that, right? Not Chinese socialism.

WILL HURD: Absolutely. And it's China's signifier of authorities that is successful turning their taste minorities successful attraction camps and utilizing their information to effort to power them, right. Like, you know, attraction of powerfulness successful the hands of the fewer is ne'er is ne'er a bully happening due to the fact that that powerfulness yet gets abused.

MICHAEL MORELL: Yeah. So fto maine inquire you astir 2 different issues successful the home section. One is immigration. This is truly important.

WILL HURD: Yeah. Look, it's the longest section successful the book, and it's the 1 that astir apt frustrates maine the most. You know, I deliberation I was the lone subordinate of Congress to person ever stamped visas. That was my my time job. And past I did my existent worldly astatine nighttime erstwhile I was backmost successful the government. And I was besides liable for going crossed - I whitethorn oregon whitethorn not person criss-crossed borders successful alias.

And truthful astatine the extremity of the day, migration and borderline information are connected. And the situation that we're seeing astatine the borderline close present is the worst it's ever been. And 1 of the ways that we should beryllium addressing this crisis, not lone is it, don't dainty everybody similar an asylum seeker and dismantling the infrastructure that is utilized to determination people.
DHS is projecting perchance up to 400,000 radical a period coming crossed our borderline illegally. It's hard to get from Tegucigalpa to Eagle Pass, okay. And there's a batch of infrastructure that needs to beryllium dismantled. So you request to bash each those things.

And we should besides beryllium streamlining ineligible immigration. Every manufacture needs workers. And successful this time and age, we should beryllium blase capable to beryllium capable to adhd idiosyncratic visas, whether Texas needs hospitality and Florida needs agriculture, and California needs stevedores. We should beryllium capable to set idiosyncratic visas to beryllium capable to bash that.
Also, if the Chinese authorities is going to bargain our exertion and our intelligence property, but still, they're engineers. Let's marque sure, if immoderate kid from China is getting a Ph.D. successful information analytics astatine Texas A&M University, that erstwhile they graduate, that they're going to travel enactment for a large American concern oregon commencement a institution here, not spell backmost to China.

And truthful each of these things tin beryllium done astatine the aforesaid time. And this - and oh, and by the way, erstwhile we're dealing with ostentation and concerns of a recession, it's bully to adhd much radical to the taxpayers base. And truthful that's different happening that wherefore streamlining ineligible migration and benefiting from what I speech about, however we've benefited from the encephalon summation we person successful the country. Let's proceed that.

And what's truthful frustrating astir each this, each these things I conscionable laid out, astir Democrats and Republicans agree. Immigration and being capable to person operational power of our border, meaning we cognize everything that's coming backmost and distant and streamlining ineligible migration - 70% of Democratic superior voters hold with this and 70% of Republican voters hold with this. However, which goes backmost to what we archetypal talked about, and that is politicians connected some sides would alternatively usage this contented arsenic a governmental bludgeon against each different alternatively than a occupation to lick and spell into an election. Be like, 'Hey, look astatine us. We solved this problem.'

MICHAEL MORELL: Will, you conscionable said thing that's truly important. The things you speech astir successful the archetypal 2 sections person to get fixed earlier you tin hole the galore issues you laic retired successful the 3rd conception of the book. And past it flows yet to our relation successful the world.

But there's a measurement by measurement process present successful presumption of what has to hap successful bid to get the reboot you're talking about. Let maine inquire you astir your attack to planetary warming.

WILL HURD: Mm hmm. So I deliberation we we request to reframe the speech a small bit. And what I mean, that this is not astir america preventing, you know, america hurting the Earth. Mother Nature is undefeated. There person been 5 extinction events, and we're opening a sixth extinction event. This is astir preventing Mother Earth from doing thing to wounded america and to hitch us, hitch humans disconnected of the planet.

And truthful this is astir protecting ourselves. And I think, you know, I effort to speech successful blimpish circles that mode to get radical to recognize the value of this.

MICHAEL MORELL: And you don't dependable similar a Republican talking close now, right.

WILL HURD: Well, but here's what's fascinating to me. You speech astir erstwhile you're connected assemblage campuses. If you speech to immoderate Republican nether the property of 35, if you're incorrect connected this issue, they're not going to perceive to you.

MICHAEL MORELL: Interesting.

WILL HURD: And truthful young conservatives are arsenic focused connected this peculiar issue. And it's complicated. There is, I think, the fig - I spell into this successful the publication - determination are inactive radical that don't person power. There are radical that don't person cleanable h2o to person food. Like getting to nett zero emissions is going to mean we're going to person to inactive trust connected immoderate hydrocarbons arsenic we evolve. We're going to person to person a strategy to woody with nuclear. We're going to person to person investments successful technologies that are amended astatine c capture. All of these things are analyzable and it requires america to person a superior conversation.

And we should person a statement betwixt Republicans and Democrats connected what the champion mode to align regulatory incentives and taxation incentives successful bid to execute immoderate of these and successful bid to get to these tools that are going to assistance marque definite that we forestall a sixth extinction lawsuit from happening connected Earth.

And my fear, though, is immoderate of the callousness that I deliberation was met with a important nonaccomplishment of beingness during COVID is an denotation of however the decease and demolition we're going to spot from clime alteration is going to hap implicit time. It's going to hap successful communities that really weren't, you know, astir apt the slightest radical progressive successful contributing to planetary warming.

And truthful this conception wherever radical yet get frightened and it's successful their face, we mightiness beryllium already past the constituent of nary instrumentality erstwhile the bulk of the communities admit that.

MICHAEL MORELL: And you're close back, I think, to leadership. And recognizing what needs to alteration and inspiring the federation down you. You're close backmost to that archetypal conception of your book.

WILL HURD: Well, each these things are connected.

MICHAEL MORELL: Absolutely. Absolutely. So I privation to determination connected to the adjacent conception of the book, but I privation folks to cognize that I skipped implicit immoderate highly important issues, home issues that you constitute about.
Most importantly, you spell heavy connected wellness care, which is incredibly important, and you spell heavy connected education, which you've already conscionable concisely talked about, but you spell heavy connected - folks tin work the publication and work astir those issues and however you deliberation astir them.

The 4th conception of the publication is astir the U.S. relation successful the world. So however would you item the cardinal points successful that section?

WILL HURD: Here's what I've learned successful my 21 years associated with the nationalist information community. And it boils down to a elemental philosophy: Your friends should emotion you and your enemies should fearfulness you. And that requires knowing precisely who your friends are and who your enemies are. You person to beryllium wide astir that. And recognizing that our hard powerfulness is based connected our brushed power. And our brushed powerfulness is based connected our values.

And truthful America's relation successful the world, we person benefited from an planetary bid that we person supported with our brushed and our hard powerfulness that has led to economical maturation successful the United States and has helped amended prime of beingness astir the world. And truthful this conception that overseas argumentation - I ever archer radical overseas argumentation is not foreign. So ever easier to lick problems earlier they deed our shores. And it's ever amended to person a policy. It's bully to person friends. And this is what makes america unique.

Because the - and Michael, close maine if I'm wrong, the the Chinese authorities and the Russian government, they don't person allies. Right. They person satellites. And we're capable to physique alliances and friends and truthful that's however I would boil things down. And look, you know, you and I person had debates connected Ukraine. But erstwhile I usage this framework for Ukraine, erstwhile President Zelenskyy is asking for america to bash much and supply much equipment, that's a motion your friends aren't truly successful emotion with you.

You know, I deliberation we've fixed a batch and we've supported a lot. I wouldn't negate immoderate of that. I'm of the sentiment that we tin beryllium providing more. And past erstwhile Vladimir Putin is continuing to level decease and demolition - and what helium did to Mariupol, helium tin bash successful different parts of the country. And that's a motion that the Russians are acrophobic of us.

And truthful we person an important relation successful the world, but it requires our policymakers and elected officials to pass that relation to the public. The nationalist understands however we're connected to Ukraine and Russia close present due to the fact that of the terms of filling up their cars and the terms of nutrient expanding due to the fact that of this conflict. So it's exceptionally acute close now, but we've ever got to beryllium perpetually making the lawsuit of wherefore this matters, wherefore our activities successful different parts of the satellite matters backmost present astatine home.

MICHAEL MORELL: So however would you people the medication connected Ukraine with respect to your presumption of however we should behaviour overseas policy?

I mean, it sounds - I don't privation enactment words successful your rima - but it sounds similar you deliberation they're doing beauteous well, but you'd similar them to bash a small spot more.

WILL HURD: You know, I would possibly say, look, C-plus, B minus, B? We ever privation to speech astir escalation and that if we bash something, this is going to escalate the conflict. And, you know, successful 2015, erstwhile determination were debates astir whether we should beryllium sending Javelins to Ukraine to assistance support against the Russians, determination was a statement that's going to escalate and origin the Russians to bash more. At the opening of this year, determination was debates astir if we bash economical sanctions now, that's going to origin them to invade Ukraine. We got that wrong.

Trying to recognize second, third, 4th and 5th bid of effects, I deliberation is incredibly difficult. And truthful for me, it's astir archetypal principles. And the archetypal rule successful my lawsuit successful this concern is, however bash you forestall the massacre of guiltless people? And past also, we request to beryllium prepared that if we, erstwhile we bash supply much enactment to to woody with the Russian response, I don't cognize if 20 Polish MiGs volition alteration the tide of of the conflict, but let's springiness them to the Ukrainians and fig this out.

Putin's having a hard capable clip successful Ukraine dealing with conscionable the Ukrainians. He's not going to privation to summation efforts to person the Poles get involved, who has a larger subject and conscionable arsenic sophisticated, if not much blase than the Ukrainians. They don't privation to spot French fighters flying implicit Ukraine. And truthful I deliberation Putin knows that that escalation volition pb to, you know, yet his downfall successful Ukraine.

And my interest is, the longer this struggle goes on, it benefits Russia. Because our Eastern European allies are going to beryllium feeling the pressures of a assemblage surviving nether the menace of war. The person you are to Russia, the much sanctions and secondary sanctions interaction you, and past the increasing humanitarian situation of Ukrainians successful these countries.

I deliberation it was past month, Warsaw said their colonisation accrued 14%. Imagine if D.C. oregon Austin, Texas, you know, their colonisation accrued 14% successful a month. The pressures that put. The much pressures you enactment connected those governments, the much pressures you're going to get you're going to spot successful the Western alliance. And past you spot a deficiency of enactment from the Ukrainians.

So, you know, is simply a diplomatic solution - are we person to that? I don't deliberation there's thing that Ukrainians are consenting to connection that the Russians volition beryllium capable to accept. And truthful tin we beryllium giving much dense weaponry to the Ukrainians successful bid to propulsion the Russians retired of the country? That's wherever I deliberation our argumentation should be.

MICHAEL MORELL: Will, the past conception of your publication is focused connected technology. It's truly each astir China and the combat implicit the technologies of the future, arsenic good arsenic the important contented of cyber. What bash you privation folks to locomotion distant with from that section?

WILL HURD: Look, the crushed I wrote it is to admit that this is not astir America becoming our champion selves. We person to beryllium our champion selves due to the fact that we're successful a contention with the Chinese government. And the Chinese authorities is trying to surpass the United States of America arsenic the planetary superpower. And they're doing this by by being the planetary person successful a fig of precocious technologies - 5G, artificial intelligence, quantum computing, hypersonics things successful the biotech space, astir 12 to 14 of these kinds of technologies.

And successful bid for america to compete, we request to marque definite that the nationalist assemblage and the backstage assemblage are moving together, and we're moving with our allies connected keeping American planetary enactment successful these technologies. Vladimir Putin said backmost successful 2014, 'Whoever masters AI masters the world.' I deliberation this is astir apt the lone happening I hold with him on.

Because these tools are going to beryllium truthful powerful. So I'm connected the committee of a exertion institution and we conscionable introduced a merchandise wherever you tin usage substance to make an image. You tin say, "Create an impressionist mentation of the Mona Lisa painting, arsenic if it's a watercolor." And a mates of seconds aboriginal you get 20 antithetic images, and it's powerful. It didn't scour the Internet to find an representation similar this. It creates a caller representation pixel by pixel. '

Now, we've enactment immoderate information restraints successful determination to forestall deepfakes of individuals and of people. But the Chinese authorities doesn't attraction astir that. You privation to speech astir the meddling successful our elections and however the Russians usage societal media successful 2016 successful bid to effort to power elections. Imagine that they person tools this powerful. And truthful that is wherefore the aboriginal of struggle is not conscionable successful cyberspace. It's successful the full exertion abstraction and quantum computing.

Why does this matter? The astir contiguous happening is quantum computers could beryllium capable to interruption each the encryption that we presently usage to support not conscionable our communications, but each of our fiscal flows, whether it's successful our bank, whether it's connected the banal market, the quality - whoever reaches quantum supremacy to truly interaction planetary economies is beauteous significant.

You know, you and I are aged capable to retrieve Y2K. I was successful assemblage erstwhile Y2K happened. And I was going to thrust from San Antonio to Dallas to spot my woman astatine the time. And I was benignant of freaking retired due to the fact that it's like, 'Y2K is going to happen. Who knows?' And thing happened.

Why? We spent $1,000,000,000,000 and 4 years moving connected that and being prepared for that situation. We request to beryllium doing thing akin for quantum computing and successful making definite that we person quantum resilient encryption successful everything of immoderate value that we use.

And truthful these are analyzable issues to deliberation about. If we deliberation societal media is atrocious - and societal media was capable that, successful sharing pictures we're going to spot it increases the likelihood that a young teenage miss cuts herself. Imagine these tools that are adjacent much almighty than that.

And truthful we person to beryllium astatine a constituent wherever we're capable to instrumentality vantage of exertion earlier it takes vantage of us. Now, there's besides breathtaking - these tools are going to let america to, are acceptable close present to observe cancers years successful advance, which means a longer life. Is helping with the clime contented due to the fact that it's allowing farmers to summation harvest accumulation with little water, with little land, with little energy. That's awesome.

The quality to pass with our loved ones, the quality to assistance radical that are unsighted to navigate and person state of movement. These are each immoderate truly breathtaking capabilities. And the technological detonation we're going to spot successful the adjacent 47 years is going to marque the past 47 years, since the since the invention of the idiosyncratic computer, look similar we were monkeys playing successful the ungraded with sticks. It's exciting, but we've got to beryllium acceptable for it.
And it and it goes backmost to we request nationalist leaders that recognize these technologies. We request governmental parties that are consenting to person debates connected these topics to fig retired however to champion usage this. And however bash we hole for a nine that has these kinds of almighty tools.

MICHAEL MORELL: Will, we person astir a infinitesimal and a fractional left, and I privation to travel backmost to wherever we started the conversation. I had a chat astir a twelvemonth agone with a erstwhile elder subordinate of the Republican Party, a mean similar you. And, you know, he's not successful authorities anymore.

And I asked him, erstwhile are we going to spot you back? And helium said, 'Michael, this is not my politics,' right? 'I couldn't get elected today.'

And past helium said thing that benignant of blew maine away. He said, 'Look, I don't cognize if the signifier we're going done present is going to beryllium 3 to 5 years oregon it's going to beryllium 25 to 30 years.' Just respond to that for me.

WILL HURD: Sure. Look, I deliberation it gets a small worse earlier it gets better, but I bash deliberation our champion days are up of us. And here's why. And I've learned this successful the territory that I represented, which was a existent plaything district, and I've seen it arsenic I've crisscrossed the country. Way much unites america than divides america arsenic a country. And erstwhile we speech astir those issues that unite us, the quality to enactment nutrient connected our table, a extortion implicit our head, and marque definite the radical we emotion are healthy, blessed and harmless - erstwhile we speech astir those issues, that's erstwhile we animate people.

And truthful I deliberation this is the existent accidental due to the fact that 80% of the state is acceptable for thing different. We don't person to proceed connected this way that we're on. We tin - you know, we learned this successful the CIA - get disconnected the X, oregon something's going down. That's the past spot you privation to beryllium wherever it's going down.

And truthful I really judge that soundless majority, that mediate of the state who wants things to work, they're going to commencement flexing their musculus and say, 'Hey, we don't similar the mode things are going.'

MICHAEL MORELL: The publication is, "American Reboot: An Idealist's Guide to Getting Big Things Done." The writer is Will Hurd. Will, convey you truthful overmuch for joining us.

WILL HURD: Thanks for having maine on.